Hi Neil
I injured my ankle about 13 yrs ago which involved causing some big damage (possibly tearing) the 3 tendons / ligaments on the inside of my right ankle.
Of course being young I didn’t look for any physio advice and I hoped it got better by itself.
I didn’t walk on it for about 5 weeks so as it healed everything really tightened up. I first noticed the implications of this walking uphill as I would only put the toe of the foot down.
Since the injury I have ridden 6 full seasons as well as 2 or 3 trips every year when I haven’t been in resort for the season. I have always been aware of the lack of flexion in my back ankle and more so since I suffered an extended fracture to the tibia plateau of my R knee 4 yrs ago (requiring a lot of metal work down to mid shin)
If I keep both heels on the ground and drop my knees to flex my ankles my left knee will easily drop to at least 1” below the furthest point I can force my right knee (before the R heel un-weights or comes off the ground). This movement restriction has obvious implications on how I can weight different parts of the board.
I tend to compensate by riding with a lot of negative angle on my back foot (-9 to -12) this allows flexion of the knee inside the stance – ie a little tucked. I am tempted to start trying to ride with even more neg on that foot to see if I can get a little more flexion – but I think it will affect how much I can load up the tail with pop and or stability out of turns and on landings.
Maybe another option would be to pack the heel of my right boot slightly and put a little more forward lean on the binding which could put it all into a slightly pre flexed position?
I would like to think I have a good technique and have ridden a lot with a BASI(1) trainer over the years, I had a few days in Solden last year with one of the Aussie trainers who improved my riding so much in the steepest terrain. I tried for the NZ instructors course in 2002 but failed (partly due to lack of demonstrable flexion).
When I was riding all the time I just dealt with it – not wanting to whinge too much. But its an issue I have never got to the bottom of.
What are your thoughts on my ideas of excessive neg stance or packing the heel? Do you have any experience of this issue in others – if so do you have any suggestions?
If you don’t – no worries!
All the best
Tom
I injured my ankle about 13 yrs ago which involved causing some big damage (possibly tearing) the 3 tendons / ligaments on the inside of my right ankle.
Of course being young I didn’t look for any physio advice and I hoped it got better by itself.
I didn’t walk on it for about 5 weeks so as it healed everything really tightened up. I first noticed the implications of this walking uphill as I would only put the toe of the foot down.
Since the injury I have ridden 6 full seasons as well as 2 or 3 trips every year when I haven’t been in resort for the season. I have always been aware of the lack of flexion in my back ankle and more so since I suffered an extended fracture to the tibia plateau of my R knee 4 yrs ago (requiring a lot of metal work down to mid shin)
If I keep both heels on the ground and drop my knees to flex my ankles my left knee will easily drop to at least 1” below the furthest point I can force my right knee (before the R heel un-weights or comes off the ground). This movement restriction has obvious implications on how I can weight different parts of the board.
I tend to compensate by riding with a lot of negative angle on my back foot (-9 to -12) this allows flexion of the knee inside the stance – ie a little tucked. I am tempted to start trying to ride with even more neg on that foot to see if I can get a little more flexion – but I think it will affect how much I can load up the tail with pop and or stability out of turns and on landings.
Maybe another option would be to pack the heel of my right boot slightly and put a little more forward lean on the binding which could put it all into a slightly pre flexed position?
I would like to think I have a good technique and have ridden a lot with a BASI(1) trainer over the years, I had a few days in Solden last year with one of the Aussie trainers who improved my riding so much in the steepest terrain. I tried for the NZ instructors course in 2002 but failed (partly due to lack of demonstrable flexion).
When I was riding all the time I just dealt with it – not wanting to whinge too much. But its an issue I have never got to the bottom of.
What are your thoughts on my ideas of excessive neg stance or packing the heel? Do you have any experience of this issue in others – if so do you have any suggestions?
If you don’t – no worries!
All the best
Tom
Hi Tom,
A couple of questions so I can understand what is going on better.
You say you have negative angle in order to tuck your knee inside your stance? For me negative angle is used in order to get the pressure outside of the stance towards the rear of the board and so move the knee in the opposite direction towards the tail of the board.
I use pressure in the nose and tail of the board and not so much in the middle. Moving your knee towards the rear of the board would mean you could flex the rear of the board in the end of the turn and balance better with out needing so much ankle flex?
Why do you want to flex to the inside of the stance?
Flexion is for balance. When you edge the board you need to flex in order to keep your centre of gravity over the edge. On the heel edge the majority of this flex comes from the knee joint and hip joint. Spreading the knees wider enables this balancing movement. This shouldn’t be restricted by your ankle.
Balance on the toe edge comes from spreading the knees wider, flexing the knees with a slight flex in the hip and ankle. The amount of flex in the ankle need not be great as the knees can do most of the flexion. Spreading the knees outwards keeps the bio mechanics of the body correct and also enables pressure to the nose and tail in order to bend and flex the board to make it turn.
I’m not sure why you’d feel the need to tuck your knee inside the stance? If you have your feet in a duck stance then you should be able to spread your knees outwards and so balance better and not need so much ankle flex?
With a stiff ankle or boot you can still balance on your toe edge and effectively edge the board.
On the heel edge ankle flex isn’t an issue.
So like I say I’m not sure why you’d want to have negative angle and then roll you knee to the inside? This goes against the bio mechanics of the body and the ankle and knee joints as well as bringing pressure to the middle of the board and so you then can’t bend the tail to finish the turn?
Maybe I missed something in your explanation but it seems to me that you need to develop your use and understanding of pressure to the nose and tail in order to bend and flex the board so this it turns by flex and design.
Also, If you did want to tuck in your knee I’d have thought a flatter angle would allow the ankle to roll inwards more effectively?
Let me know if any of this makes sense to you. Many people ride with very stiff boots as like I said ankle flex is useful but not essential for effective snowboarding.
Neil.
A couple of questions so I can understand what is going on better.
You say you have negative angle in order to tuck your knee inside your stance? For me negative angle is used in order to get the pressure outside of the stance towards the rear of the board and so move the knee in the opposite direction towards the tail of the board.
I use pressure in the nose and tail of the board and not so much in the middle. Moving your knee towards the rear of the board would mean you could flex the rear of the board in the end of the turn and balance better with out needing so much ankle flex?
Why do you want to flex to the inside of the stance?
Flexion is for balance. When you edge the board you need to flex in order to keep your centre of gravity over the edge. On the heel edge the majority of this flex comes from the knee joint and hip joint. Spreading the knees wider enables this balancing movement. This shouldn’t be restricted by your ankle.
Balance on the toe edge comes from spreading the knees wider, flexing the knees with a slight flex in the hip and ankle. The amount of flex in the ankle need not be great as the knees can do most of the flexion. Spreading the knees outwards keeps the bio mechanics of the body correct and also enables pressure to the nose and tail in order to bend and flex the board to make it turn.
I’m not sure why you’d feel the need to tuck your knee inside the stance? If you have your feet in a duck stance then you should be able to spread your knees outwards and so balance better and not need so much ankle flex?
With a stiff ankle or boot you can still balance on your toe edge and effectively edge the board.
On the heel edge ankle flex isn’t an issue.
So like I say I’m not sure why you’d want to have negative angle and then roll you knee to the inside? This goes against the bio mechanics of the body and the ankle and knee joints as well as bringing pressure to the middle of the board and so you then can’t bend the tail to finish the turn?
Maybe I missed something in your explanation but it seems to me that you need to develop your use and understanding of pressure to the nose and tail in order to bend and flex the board so this it turns by flex and design.
Also, If you did want to tuck in your knee I’d have thought a flatter angle would allow the ankle to roll inwards more effectively?
Let me know if any of this makes sense to you. Many people ride with very stiff boots as like I said ankle flex is useful but not essential for effective snowboarding.
Neil.
Hi Neil
thanks for the reply I appreciate you are busy at the moment.
The tuck is only apparent when I am really trying to rail the board over as hard as I can on toe edge, and my knees are almost on the snow.
I don’t use the negative angle to tuck my knee inside my stance – rather – I can only achieve compression on my toe side edge by allowing the knee to tuck in due the restricted movement of the tendons on the inside of the ankle. I hope that makes sense. As such I feel the negative angle allows some compensation for the tucked knee….
On my heelside the knee goes out as it should(as you point out due to limited ankle flex necessary on that edge).
If I try to spread my knees wider on a toe edge I cannot achieve anything like the same compression and related board performance as when I allow the back knee to tuck.
The ankle is so tight on the inside it will not allow the lower leg to roll outwards.
I was having a good feel of it just a couple of days ago and when I was carving around switch I realised that the restricted movement really affected how quickly and powerfully I could initiate to the toe edge switch, due to not being able to articulate the knee towards the nose of the board. I can carve around switch on a stiff 169 without losing the edge on mellow terrain - and ride powder switch on a skate banana. But as soon as it gets challenging I don’t have the flexion to cope with a real toe edge bite and it feels weak on the bumpy / chopped up stuff (all when riding switch).
I am sorry if it sounds woolly, your writing is very clear and concise, and I understand immediately the points you make. If you don’t understand the issues I am having I will have to pull my finger out and enrol on one of your courses at the beginning of next season! I really enjoy working on technique and discussing how these things work so it would be of great value!
Tom
The tuck is only apparent when I am really trying to rail the board over as hard as I can on toe edge, and my knees are almost on the snow.
I don’t use the negative angle to tuck my knee inside my stance – rather – I can only achieve compression on my toe side edge by allowing the knee to tuck in due the restricted movement of the tendons on the inside of the ankle. I hope that makes sense. As such I feel the negative angle allows some compensation for the tucked knee….
On my heelside the knee goes out as it should(as you point out due to limited ankle flex necessary on that edge).
If I try to spread my knees wider on a toe edge I cannot achieve anything like the same compression and related board performance as when I allow the back knee to tuck.
The ankle is so tight on the inside it will not allow the lower leg to roll outwards.
I was having a good feel of it just a couple of days ago and when I was carving around switch I realised that the restricted movement really affected how quickly and powerfully I could initiate to the toe edge switch, due to not being able to articulate the knee towards the nose of the board. I can carve around switch on a stiff 169 without losing the edge on mellow terrain - and ride powder switch on a skate banana. But as soon as it gets challenging I don’t have the flexion to cope with a real toe edge bite and it feels weak on the bumpy / chopped up stuff (all when riding switch).
I am sorry if it sounds woolly, your writing is very clear and concise, and I understand immediately the points you make. If you don’t understand the issues I am having I will have to pull my finger out and enrol on one of your courses at the beginning of next season! I really enjoy working on technique and discussing how these things work so it would be of great value!
Tom
Hi Tom,
I think to comment better I'd really have to see you ride and have a look at what you do. It sounds like your understanding of technique is good so I'd need to see for myself really.
One thing I could suggest is that you try a board with camber between the feet and rocker from the foot to tip and tail like the jones twin or flagship or yes boards. The rocker from under the foot brings the turn initiation point under your foot and so you don't need to move pressure so far forward and can easily initiate a turn by straight pedalling across the board with minimal pressure toward tip and tail?
Just a thought but I'd need to see your ride to comment further.
Neil.
I think to comment better I'd really have to see you ride and have a look at what you do. It sounds like your understanding of technique is good so I'd need to see for myself really.
One thing I could suggest is that you try a board with camber between the feet and rocker from the foot to tip and tail like the jones twin or flagship or yes boards. The rocker from under the foot brings the turn initiation point under your foot and so you don't need to move pressure so far forward and can easily initiate a turn by straight pedalling across the board with minimal pressure toward tip and tail?
Just a thought but I'd need to see your ride to comment further.
Neil.
No comments:
Post a Comment